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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 5:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: rhino release

12-31-76. Due out jan 15.

Comments? I think they could have offered up something a little more interesting for the first release. But, at least they are starting.

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Poster: elkdog Date: Oct 31, 2006 7:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

So it's not necessarily what I would have picked, but I'll buy it. A complete show, too. I think they're listening. Also, a '76 (and '77 too, I guess) release plugs a gap in the vault release chronology. Looking at the list below, this plugs the main gap in the Pigpen/ Keith years. The Views from the Vault would fall into the later '80's, but are not multi-track. To top it off, much of the early-80's stuff just isn't in the vault. Some '73, if it exists, would be grand, but I think they're doing pretty well.

1966- Rare Cuts and Oddities
1968- Two From the Vault
1969- Fillmore East, Fillmore West Set
1971- Ladies and Gentlemen
1972- Steppin' Out, Hundred Year Hall, Rockin' the Rhein
1974- GD Movie Soundtrack
1975- One From The Vault
1976/7- (Whatever they're going to call it)
1978/9- Closing of Winterland
1980- Go To Nassau
1989- Nightfall of Diamonds
1990- Dozin' At The Knick

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

6/30/95- Three Rivers in the Rain (I think they should put out at least one show from 94/95. For perspective)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I just finally got this on CD ( had a crappy tape for years ). Wish they'd release something I DON'T have. As much as I like 76 and think it's completely underated and unrepresented, this seems like a DUMB show to make a first release.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

talk about a heroin induced year...1976 = yawn

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Really? Never heard 6-9-76? . One of the best Eyes EVER. Go listen to it and tell me you're yawning. 6-11-76? 6-19-76?10-1-76? Just to name a few. What about all the smokin Dancins? Killer Let it Grows? Mighty fine Cosmic Charlies? High Time was probably played the most beautiful they EVER did it that year. Also, to my ears that is the ONLY year they ever did justice to the intro to Crazy Fingers.Sure there were some slower than normal moments probably due to the reintroduction of Mickey but I still say 76 had some great moments. I'm not saying it's their best year but I certainly think it gets overshadowed by 77 so is basically unjustly ignored.

Oh yeah, and Jerry's voice hadn't been shredded yet.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 8:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

right on johnny - very well put!! 76 is one of my favorite years for that "smooth" sound. i do realize it is all subjective though. your examples are damn straight on the money. give them a try Fish.

also, i didn't think jer was into heroin in 76 - always thought from what i read that it came after 78. could be wrong - or maybe what i read was wrong.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 9:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

heroin ~ cocaine whats the difference ..jerry sounds too fucked up and plays way too mellow ...sure certain songs are sweet but overall this ain't my time ....i'll pass

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

If you don't dig the sound then that's a matter of your personal preference and opinion. If you think he sounds too fucked up to play then I respectfully have to say in my opinion you don't know what your talking about. Go visit some mid 80's and late 90's and tell me Jerry is too fucked up in 76. Good lord man! Do you see Jerry dancing smiling and MOVING on stage in 76? You know, actually getting into it and putting forth obvious effort.What was he doing when he was REALLY too F'd up?

And there's a big difference between coke and Heroin. Not saying they're not both bad but take it into perspective. Jerry was obviously often a Coke Head as was just about half the freakin country in those years. Considering the stuff they did while using that drug I personally think it was no where near the hinderance to the music as the other.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

he was heavily doped up -equals fucked up in my ears as far as the way he sounded not acted..some people get real mellow when they get fucked up and jerry was too mellow in 76 -that's how i hear it and its cause he was fucked up on shit!!! now the 80's he ws fucked up too but the music wasnt

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

hmm " fucked up on shit"

Uh, you DO realize what band we're talking about don't you? Regardless of people's stances on drugs, it aint going to make the realities of this band go away. They partied! And as much as we know that CAN lead to bad things, in them days people were able to do it without being lectured.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 1, 2006 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Without a doubt drugs were part of what made the Dead the Dead.

That's very un-PC to say these days but it was a reality of the band's sound and part of what made them sound the way they did and write and create and jam the way they did. For sometimes good and sometimes bad. (Most times phenomenal.)

It was Phil, I believe, who once said that part of the thing with Jerry and drugs is that he just didn't like to be told what was good for him and what wasn't... and fairly enjoyed giving the finger to the rest of the world when it came to things that he wanted to put into his own body.

Obviously, he paid a price for that in the end, but I guarantee you none of us would be here passionately debating and discussing the nuances of their music had the band decided to go all clean and squeaky and write songs just to make the pop charts.

Different drugs were a part of every different Dead era and very much a part of their identity. As the late great Bill Hicks would remind you, when it came to legendary songs that pass the test of time and a LOT of the people who created them: "Reeaaaaal high on drugs."

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

hmm " fucked up on shit"

that's what coke is -shit -

now vitamin A that's where it's at....jerry would'nt have time to mope a dope on that -shit!!!!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Why is this JUST about Jerry? You think he was the ONLY one? Give me a break.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

yep -

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 1:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

yeah right ok.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Nov 1, 2006 1:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

You guys are all such bozos. '71. '76. '81. Geeeze--don't you know that the best year was 1965? Can't Come Down? Mindbender? Early Morning Rain? Now that's what I call art.

It's all good. If we all liked the same year(s), how dull it would be.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

LOL! I like most all years man. I don't think Fish should listen to 65 or 66 because they were all F'd up on DMT and other kinds of SPEED.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 2:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

i wonder if they ever tried DMT - that is one monstrous kick-ass psychodelic trip (from the trip reports ive read) - extremely difficult to handle without flipping out. 5-20 minutes of loss of universe.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

oh yeah they talk about it all the time. In fact there's one story by Owsley or one of them where they/he claims they were able to play louder than any other time. Some sort of experiment thing. Sounded a lot better when he explained it, sounds like a Spinal Tap scene when I describe it ( " this one goes to eleven" ).

Anways, they were doing methadrine or some sort of SPEED when they recorded the first album. Wonder what Fishead thinks of that?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 3:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

no way they could play on DMT - totally disorienting with nothing of the visual world left - total physical catatonia - especially if they "broke through" - would have loved to have tried that in my old days - but ive heard it can be extremely horrifying.

for the first 5-20 minutes - many many many times more powerful than LSD - read some of the trip reports on erowid.org (or com) - mindblowing descriptions and a total shock to the brain beyond anything lsd could do

This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2006-11-01 23:13:47

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

well tell that to them then. That is the claim. Supposedly they smoked it.

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2006-11-02 00:02:00

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 4:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

oh - not doubtin they smoked it - just doubtin they could even see a guitar after smoking - read the descriptions. not trying to argue with you my friend - hope you know me better than that - sorry man for making a case with you when none was intended - hope we are cool !

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 4:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

geez man! Don't go getting all sensitive on me now : )

Of course there's no hard feelings. Sorry if it sounded that way. Oh hey, I didn't forget about the CD's, just been BUSY. Figured you are too. Soon!

How about all this anti-drug talk aurrounding Jerry? Of course anyone can argue how bad Heroin is but COME ON! This is the Grateful F'n DEAD not the Carpenters. What in the hell is the worlds coming to?

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 2, 2006 6:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

How about all this anti-drug talk aurrounding Jerry? Of course anyone can argue how bad Heroin is but COME ON! This is the Grateful F'n DEAD not the Carpenters. What in the hell is the worlds coming to?

dude , you ok?? like we were talkin about 1976 and how jerry sounded /sounds to me . you can disagree all you want . it aint about anti-drug talk . its about the effects the coke had on him in 1976 (imo) that made him way too mellow along with the rest of the band cause jerry was the leader and the band went as jerry went ..he was the conductor.they all followed jerry's lead. was it gonna be a mellow show or an upbeat show . to me 1976 is way too mellow .
like i said before vitamin a-not coke /i dont like coke....not that it matters what if jerry hadnt done coke or heroin -ya think he still be around today ??? of course so obviuosly some drugs are bad bad bad bad bad..but i dont preach ..its up to the individual and jerry unfortunatly couldnt stop ....

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

yeah I'm perfectly ok " DUDE". You're talking TWO different things there pal. First you don't like 76, ok I get it. Second you were there, as a close personal friend of Jerry's and the band and you know exactly what drugs and other factors contributed to the bands sound. You also know that all the band members followed everything Jerry said and did right? That's pretty much what you said. The fact that you don't like 76 is your opinion, your personal tastes, etc. " sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own" right? But your argument that the band was slow in 76 soley based on Jerry doing coke is in my opinion ridiculous. What, you don't think he was doing coke in the Brent years?

This whole argument is souding dumber and dumber to me so I can only imagine what others probably think about it.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 2, 2006 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

how about we get together over a few bongs and discuss this furthur....:) bring a hot 76 show with you and a pillow !

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

UUUHHHH?? Bring a pillow??? Not sure if I wanna ask but...please elaborate...

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 2, 2006 1:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

little inside humor between the goodbjohnny and if you have been following the discussion you should be able to figure it out !!! and its not a homo reference!


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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 1:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Hey Fishead - Yeah, figured that, but could not resist! I am bored and demented, I'll admit as much...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

maybe he wants to get "cozy" with johnny!!! (be afraid, be very afraid)

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 1:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

You both are punks! One reason I like you guys : )

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

LOL! Great response. Don't worry I fully understand your pillow comment unlike those philistines below : )

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 2:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

i still think Fish is a bit ac/dc - it was certainly a Lacanian reference to subconsciosly desiring to cuddle with his mommy.

run now mommy....errr, johnny

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Poster: mcglone Date: Nov 2, 2006 2:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

dire,

your not paying your staff writters nearly enough! i actually laughed out loud!

all in good fun, i'm sure.

ian

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 2:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

absolutely in good fun!!!

although, being so cold and lonely in Alaska - Johnny just may take him up on it - you never know.....

(johnny - you have permission to slap me upside the head)

:)

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Johnny posted a pic of he and his hottie(Babe-o-saurus Rex). I'm sure he's toasty enough w/o some scraggly old deadhead hoppin' in the sack with him.

I'd say, "I've got your back Johnny", but you KNOW where that will lead. Straight to the gutter...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Thanks for clarifyin there HighFlow. Normally I enjoy being in the gutter but not when it comes to MY back : O

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I'll cover your back anytime cutie pie.


(ok - ive drawn this out way too far)
eewwwwwww

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

what's the matter Wolf? Sheep wool getting too itchy for you so you have to try and make new " friends"? Sorry man, I love you but not in that way.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

i'm just not feelin' the love in this forum no more!! I must be in the wrong forum. I thought this was the LMA - "Loving Males Association" - damn, gotta fix this damn browser - sorry for bothering y'all ;)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

yeah you're probably one of them " rainbow" hippies huh?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 5:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

damn - ive been found out - guess i'm out of the closet now :) i was just hopin for a "closet" experience with Fish - but you took him from me..... you bastard!!!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 5:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Sorry man. I think Fish is saving himself for Brent in the after life.

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 5:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Oh God! Aren't we all?!?!

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 3, 2006 5:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

direwolf in some dire need :)

easy breezy....my ship don't sail that course...

as ed vedder said to a friend of mine last summer

it's good to have dreams.... keep dreaming...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

DAMN - you just take the fun out of everything highflow - lol. (crap, there goes my "reach around" jokes).
Yes, johnny looks quite comfy with his honey - especially in the sunny Yucatan peninsula.

All in good fun - nothing like some friendly abusive humor :) although i really do think Fish had something else in mind - hehehe (guess i'm just jealous 'cause he didn't ask me - im lonely too ya know - my leg needs some rubbin')

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

You're a sick wolf...I always knew the maulings were a manifestation of some deep rooted desire to be loved.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

will you love me??? (sniff sniff)

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Dire, I do love you. But not the kinda' love you're yurning for...


LOL. Had to shake the creepy feeling off my skin. Let's end this!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

lol - ended now!!! too funny - sorry for draggin this far further than it need to.

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

enjoyed every moment.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 2, 2006 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

me too honey :)

(ok, now that is just sick - i just smacked myself upside the head)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 3:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

ewww! Man, you're asking for it!

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Nov 1, 2006 4:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Dear boys, let us remember that there is partying and then there was smack. It only took about a year after '77 before it started showing it's ugly head and held it's "sway" on the music we love best. While Jerry was mellowing way out, the rest of the band discovered coke...and I for one think the effect of those crossed signals had audible effects.

In retrospect, '79 looks like (and sounds like) the beginning of the end. It's all documented right here, all you got to do is listen. Sure there was a revival of sorts with Brent, but the Persian got him too. Fact is, he was probably the best all around keyboard player the band ever had, but got on the bus after it had already started rolling down the hill.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 2, 2006 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Well fortunatly for me Heroin was not around during my formative full scale research ( experimenting my ass ) years. I'd like to think I would have been smart enough to think I could " try" it without getting hooked but knowing me then I probably would have tried it. BUT none of that happened and now that I'm older and wiser I have nothing but fond memories of my pary days.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 5:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

dude - certainly didnt mean to get sensitive - wasnt my intention at all - just talkin drugs - bad subject for me i guess.
sorry it came across that way.

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 1, 2006 4:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

No racism or hatred on this site, we're pretty PC. BUT, when it comes to drugs, well the "PC-ness" drops like a rock.

We've all seen the darkside of drugs. The isolation. But here at LMA, we're talking about drugs in the context of gatherings. The whole idea that your brother was there to talk you down, if necessary. Experimentation in a safe environment can be a very positive experience. Clearly a not-so PC point-of-view.

Drugs are bad for many of people for a many reasons, we ALL agree. SO, it stands to reason, drugs are good for many of people for coutless reasons.

Each day there are well-rounded, intelligent folks here at LMA forum. Together we have consumed more than our share. BUT, here we are...reading, writing, debating....breathing.

I am who I am. Drugs were a part of creating this personality. No complaints...

Pass that doobie!

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 2, 2006 6:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

yeah man..thats the ticket!!!!

just call me mellow yelloww...quite right ...

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 1, 2006 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

YES! This IS a stupid conversation. I LOVE THE GRATEFUL DEAD! Whatever you play, I'll listen with interest. No exceptions.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Nov 1, 2006 2:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

In a way it is s stupid conversation. BUT--how did you get turned onto the dead--or to many of the shows you love? I think there are some good things being shared---versions to check out, ideas that may enlighten.

I find it nice that this Dr. Flashback guy seems to love early dead the most, but points us to other times and places.

Always something to learn.

That '65 stuff, though--blow you away.

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 1, 2006 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Hey Orchid - Joking about the stupid part. Exchange of ideas and perceptions is what this is ALL about. No stupid topics exsist.

Comparing GD years is a bit like comparing types of pie. I like Apple better than Pecan, but it all goes in the pie-hole! Know what I mean...?

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Nov 1, 2006 6:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Didn't take your "stupid" comment seriously; hope no offense was taken. Quite the opposite. A good debate is the antithesis of stupid, and calling out your favorite tunes or time zones is one of the things that fascinates me about the dead--that there are so many verions of the group and so many adherents to each version.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

hmmm, strange how subjective art can be at times huh? I can understand what you're saying as not liking the slower tempos, or why some people prefer different tones to tohers ( which Jerry AND Bob were known to changes tones and axes from year to year ) but I don't see why Jerry is singled out here. In my opinion the slowness is out of being DELIBERATE and it's because of an extra drummer being reintroduced to the band.Preferences aside I can't see how you can say 76 has nothing to offer.

One question: have you ever listened to ANY of those shows I mentioned? Or are you basing this soley off of that 6-29-76 Chicago show that is in wide circulation?

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

'71 and '76 are my favorite GD years. Drugs, or no drugs those years are great. '71 shows are tight arraingments w/ a bluesy feel and the band really playing like they had something to prove!

'76 is just THE most layed-back listenable year in the GD stable. A year of re-discovery. After '72-'74 the band was burnt-out and came back in '76 with a sound that made the band members excited.

If the members of this band were clean and sober for 30 years, there would be no exspansive catalogue which showcases the ever-evolving sound of GD. I try to find a way to enjoy it all. Good, Bad and Ugly. Without the spirit of experimentation(drugs and music)this band is 3 Dod Night. Ick!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

3 DOG NIGHT! LOL! No shit Highflow. Right on!

76 isn't my favorite year but I like it a lot and I definately put it as #1 on the most under appreciated year.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

dude , you can love 76 all you want ..i have that boston show where they do that sugar mags>us>sugar mags encore.i am goin off memory so forgiive me if i'm wrong . that show puts me to sleep everytime along with others and also jerry band -sorry but too mellow - i like my dead not so dead :)

like i said sure there are good shows and so forth but overall 1976 and i am talkin 1976 don't do anyhting for me but put me to sleep...what can i say...it does...sorry
and then there's that woman..its her fault!!!! :)

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 1, 2006 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

OK, so you like to ROCK! That's fine.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Fair enough. Nothing like a rockin' Beleive it or Not or SOTM huh? Sorry, had to do it.

I never argued your preferences, just your blanket they sucked in those years statements that I think you are misguided on. I think that Sugar MAg>U.S. blues sounds more like 74. You never answered my question on those shows so I will assume you have heard them and still think they're too slow but my true instinct tells me you formed your opinion and haven't heard them.

No hard feelings - 86 Rules!

: P

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

80-83 rules !!! 87-90 rules rules and 84-85 ,91 gets its fair shake from time to time.....how about a sweet china doll>gdtrfb>dew and it aint from 76!!

as far as those shows go from 76 cant recall if i have heard them cause i haven't listened too much to that year so it really dont matter anyway . i have heard other shows from 76 and just too mellow at most times .

also i dont listen to 1986 too much either.....

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

"87-90 rules rules .....how about a sweet china doll>gdtrfb>dew and it aint from 76!! "

I'll certainly second your notion of 87-90, those are a few of my favorite years as well. but not to beg the discussion.... chinadoll>gdtrfb>dew was not always exactly "rockin" - so will assume that you truly enjoy the "sound" of jer's guitar better during those years as opposed to 76. 76 was certainly a jazzier tone.

your preference there would certainly be "fair enough"
peace

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

chinadoll>gdtrfb>dew was not always exactly "rockin" - so will assume that you truly enjoy the "sound" of jer's guitar better during those years as opposed to 76. 76 was certainly a jazzier tone.

also prefer jerry during those years over 76 for the reasons already stated....brent kinda woke jerry up a bit
hehehehehehehe

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

hmm but Brent was all F'd up too no?

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

yep -check out 1986 foe some killer fucked up brent ;)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 1:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I met the guy once and he was as wigged out paranoid high as I ever saw anyone. HE was most very definately fucked up. But I didn't think anything less of him mind you, real shy self effacing guy is how he struck me. Oh yeah, saw him run off stage before too. VERY odd behavior.

Fucked up or not I don't like the heavy handed approach to a lot of his synthesizer sound but that's MY preference and it isn't meant to degrade him as a musician and certainly not a person.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 2, 2006 6:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Oh yeah, saw him run off stage before too. VERY odd behavior.


what you never seen brent ,bobby run or jerry hustle around -off stage before..why is that odd ?? i seen jerry take off after breaking a string at landover 88 and the band didnt even realize he left...guess thats odd behavior
i like brent and i like what he brought to the table.... he could do it all on the keys....he was sweet on eyes ,china doll..cassidy...sugar mag..1/2 step ..check out 3-24-88 for a killer brent 1/2 step .etc...check out .the never ending cresendo that builds up betweeen brent & jerry ..you never got that from keith ..brents the man in my book!

This post was modified by Fishead on 2006-11-02 14:10:57

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 1, 2006 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I love 87-90 as well, and I'll throw in 91 too. As far as GDTRFB, that tune was ALWAYS good to my ears regardless of when they played it.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

wow dude - you may need your hearing checked regarding the quality of Jerry's playing during 76 (and 77). I'm not sure we're listening to the same year. Are you sure you know what good guitar playing sounds like?? Just checking.

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Oct 31, 2006 5:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Not before Christmas?? Who's gonna have $30 after Christmas?
But seriously, I agree - at least they are trying, and it is a classic show, if not, as we all know, maybe the TOP show of 1976 (do I hear July 18th somebody, can I get a witness?)
Haven't pulled out my copy for awhile, but as I recall the Playin is stupendous (I love that word, meaning: to induce stupor, ha ha). And the Help>Slipknot in Set Two is very strong. I hope they give us the missing (SBD) encores!!!

Interesting that this New Year's is more exciting in many spots - than the released 12/31/78 at Winterland, which I like, but find a bit boring overall.
Still, I'm like you - this is a bit disappointing, maybe a B- effort. Would have liked to see a Box Set, or at least more from the older days. They have barely touched 1968, or 1970 for that matter.
However, a cool booklet for 12/31/76 would be nice. At least the Wheel is turning again!! No complaints.
The Dr.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 6:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I think all Rhino releases should be post-1978

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 6:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

My eyes are bleary--did you mean post 1968?

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

No, your eyes might be blurry but they don't deceive. I think the focus should be on the Brent years and betond, because that's when they sounded most professional and really had their acts together. I like some of the older stuff, but most of it (primarily pre 1974) sounds kind of sloppy.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

You need to go back and listen Pat. Preferences aside, 4.5 hours of Wall of Sound and unparalled experimentation vs. 1.5 hours of the Heroin years? Half hour Dark Stars going into even MORE epic music like Morning Dew vs. Don't Need Love and Gimme Some Lovin? I don't get it.

No offense, I like something from ALL era's and we all have our preferences and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't see how you can deny their greatest musical peaks, ALL of which, with the exception of 87-91, occurred BEFORE the time frame you listed.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

With you Johnny. 72, 73, 74, 76, 77 all hands down musically superior to anything after.

The peak of the writing IMO was with Wake of the Flood, still some ching-ching for Mars, Terrapin and Allah, but it's hard to argue against Weather Report, Eyes, Sunshine and Stella as the core in any setlist.

Europe 72 and Spring 77 runs would never be duplicated for hotter than hot play, and even poor Donna found her voice on that spring run. Once the band played themselves out of ballrooms, halls and theatres, it all changed. Even the drug of choice.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Value judgments, value judgments... How is acid any better than coke?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Because Coke makes you fiend, is considerably more expensive, tends to lead to bad social behavior whereas good quality acid does none of those things and actually often expands a persons mind instead of turning them into a d*ck. Now if one PREFERS Coke then that is their opinion and personal preference just as yours is that everything before 78 is musically inferior : P

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

haha- very good. I can officially say that I'll never again do coke or acid. I'm just fiesty because I have very little to do today in my office except a 3 oclock phone call.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Then there are those who prefer Pepsi. Look--it's all subjective. What makes this fun is that there are those who deeply enjoy different periods of an evolving entity's life cycle--some who enjoy the whole shebang. I suspect that many of us are biased by age and exposure. The Dead were THE soundtrack to the sixties/early seventies--the acid times. This is my Dead--1967-1972, maybe 1973. Watching a group play alters one's perspective, and watching a supernova begin to explode--something not to be missed. Imagine seeing, as I did, the original five piece group in a basement with maybe 100 people jammed into the place. Intimate and loud. And the early Dark Stars were what worked for us.

Still, I doubt they would have lasted thirty years if they had nothing left to say . . . .

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 12:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I prefer Pepsi. I never saw them those years, too young, but I still think they're the best years. I think one could argue that people tend to favor the years they saw the band. Those years for me were primarily 89-91 which I think the recordings justify what I felt at the time - those years were HOT. Having said that, I have ALLWAYS thought 72-77 ( esp 72-74 ) were the band at their peak.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Oct 31, 2006 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Well, I can only speak for myself, and I saw the bulk of my shows between '84 and '90...First was '79, but still being pretty young didn't see as many shows '79 to '84 as I did after '84...

BUT I listen to and covet the '72-'77 shows the most, 1977 being my all time favorite.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Here are but a few things that aren't subjective. Out of tune instruments, off key vocals, dragging tempos, forgotten lyrics, poor acoustics, carpal tunnel syndrome, diabetes, nicotine addiction, heroin addiction, the ravages of old age and disco. You can pick your own nose, and you can pick your own era, but you can't pick mine. (With apologies to good ol' mom.)

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

None of these apparently objective criteria are unique to any specific period (or band for that matter). Do you really thing that they were better singers and their instruments were more in tune when they were a bar band?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I knew it would come to this. Let me make it official. Pat Kelley says that the band was at it's greatest from 1978-1995 and I, for one, have been convinced by his persuasive arguments. All Hail.

This post was modified by Earl B. Powell on 2006-10-31 22:44:58

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Poster: mcglone Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

it's HIS opinion and i respect it.

This post was modified by mcglone on 2006-10-31 22:31:37

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

That aint cool Earl. I was born in 1970 so was in Diapers for many a good show. Does that mean I don't know anything? I love a lot of music that was made before I was Born ( Miles Davis for example ), does that mean I'm not allowed to like or listen to it? Isn't there anything you like that was created before you were born? How about paintings?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Johnny: My apologies, and the offending post has been modified for your viewing pleasure. Your absolutely right, everybody has there own opinion, and whether it's valid or not doesn't matter as long as they feel good about themselves. Me bad. I shouldn't be a hater.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Right on. I can understand your ire though. 72-77 Dead = a noodling bar band? And 79-95 equals greatness because they were " polished"? Hard for me to swallow too.

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Poster: ducats Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I think most would agree it was a 60's - early 70's thing.

Any help on the 60's show that Pig Pen (I think Avalon + Midnight Hour) says to Jerry, "that's it - play your guitar".

Jerry dug him and I think alot of the year stuff I just read through has to do with the boys after pen.

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Poster: ducats Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I think most would agree it was a 60's - early 70's thing.

Any help on the 60's show that Pig Pen (I think Avalon + Midnight Hour) says to Jerry, "that's it - play your guitar".

Jerry dug him and I think alot of the year stuff I just read through has to do with the boys after pen.

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Poster: mcglone Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

you tell me...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd74-05-19.sbd.clugston.6957.sbeok.shnf

http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=gd85-08-24.sbd.vernon.13991.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

you can explore the music deeper on acid than coke.play off the colors of the notes and taste the chords,on coke your just rushing for your next fix...just my humble thoughts..i love all their years.

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Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

"How is acid any beter than coke?"

Hmm... that reminds me of a remark attributed to Krishnamurti, when someone asked why he picked a sharp rock out of a trail they were walking: if you can seriously ask the question, then you probably wouldn't understand the answer. ;-)

Coke made me feel good temporarily. Acid deconstructed my universe and left me forever altered, for the better.

Now I grovel in apology and contrition for seeming condescending.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

It's all good. Though 1965 still stands tallest.

Now, here's one of the links re: the release.

http://spincds.com/archives.asp?id=6443

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

See, I disagree completely with the "unparalleled experimentation" idea. Aside from the really weird 60s stuff, their most experimental stuff happened with the onset of better technology etc. Keep in mind that length doesnt equal quality. Most 70s jams are so much noodling. Your whole post is a little contradictory (stressing the importance of subjectivity in enjoyment while simultaneously definitively labelling one era as the objective best), but that's OK. There are no real rules here. Now, did you really think I had Gimme Some Lovin in mind when I wrote my post??

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I don't think I contradicted anything. I firmly beleive it is obvious that 72-77 is the band at their best. That doesn't mean I ONLY listen to those years or ONLY like those years. To me it's like people saying Dylan is at his best NOW when it has to obvious his most prolific days are behind him.Doesn't mean you shouldn't like his new stuff, maybe a person could even PREFER it.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Oct 31, 2006 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Pat,

I agree that w/the advent of new tech. and such, they tried to experiment w/diff. sounds (midis, reverb, space-related bells &whistles, etc.) and maybe they even tried to expand on some songs that had more limited jams in the 70's (compare any '77 Cassidy to an '81 or '84 or '91 and that bears out--the song was shorter and less daring in its jamming in the '70's)...

BUT I think the point is that as much as they tried to branch out in the post-Keith years there was (IMO) an almost undeniable drop-off in their execution, and abilities.

Jerry sure never sounded as good vocally in the '80's as he did in the 70's...the jamming was actually more focused (listen to a '73 Here Comes Sunshine or the Eyes'StrongerThanDirt jams or Let it Grow and it's jazzier, more like what a well-trained musician would play)...

They lost the ease and flow and sheer grooviness of a year like '77 for a more isolated approach in the 80's--each player more into his "own thing" during a song, which is why a lot of the problems they had in the 80's were a kind of choppiness to the playing...they did not sound as in synch w/each other and as a result you'd get a lot of uneven shows...some sparks of brilliance but a lot of plodding fodder in between marked by off-notes, croaky vocals, forgotten lyrics, and a sound that often resulted in what John Stewart once said was "6 guys playing a completely different song all at the same time."

Look, it IS all subjective ultimately, and I know you can point to numerous 80's shows that are legendary and deservedly so--10-12-84 right off the top of my head) but I would urge you to go back and listen to as many '77 shows, 72 and '73 and even some '74 shows and really judge the quality of the execution of their playing as opposed to a show from '85 or '87, or '88, ('89 was a comeback of sorts) and see if your opinion doesn't change slightly.

If not, hey, that's what makes horse races.

GC

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 1, 2006 7:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

at least most of them ...all the years need to be represented well ...except 94-95 they get a pass...

i'll take a nice 1988 show...how about 3-30-88!!!!

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 6:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

It has the encores. Ah, Doc, but what about a nice copy of 2-14-68? Or a BIIIIIIG BOX of Europe '72? And not the best marketing to miss Xmas.

Frankly, when I first heard it would be a NYE show, I had hoped for 12-31-71!

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Oct 31, 2006 6:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

maybe the best NYE ever, IMHO. The Other One jams are just out of another dimension. Cleaned up, this show would be unbeatable. Basically a sound check for Europe, musically speaking.
Damn, now you got me thinking 1971 ~ ~ !! Wouldn't a box set of the Felt Forum's been sweet?
The Dr.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Yes, 12-31-71 is sweet and a true soundboard would be welcome. A box set from the Felt Forum would also be nice. I'm kinda sorry they didn't go further with the DPs Academy of Music set--maybe the tapes aren't all there? But 1-31--"The Same Thing," the phenominal breakneck jamming in NFA--GDTRFB--NFA--good stuff.

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Poster: Gadwah Date: Nov 6, 2006 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

1965-1995, it's all music.
Once upon a time, anyone attending a Grateful Dead show knew going in that anything could happen. We went to these shows with no expectations.
All this analytical BS means nothing.

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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Oct 31, 2006 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

orchiddoctor,

just wondering where you found out this info? Is there a link?

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?s=af2eab37254d4b0514b0ebe308a8feb4&showtopic=11334&st=1290

good discussion group, btw.

I would imagine the official link is at Rhino.com. I'll check.

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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Oct 31, 2006 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

thanks for the info orchiddoctor.

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Oct 31, 2006 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

not the best or worst pick,just happy to see them get the ball rolling,they will get around the sweet stuff soon.

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Poster: roadrunner Date: Nov 1, 2006 6:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Just happy to know that they are actually releasing anything at all.give me some of that 12way sunshine any day over that coke crap.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Nov 1, 2006 10:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Both the 1971 and 72 New Years shows without the KSAN DJs talking over the music would be better choices. The Neville/Dead encores from 87 aren't included on the GDM release either.

"It was Phil, I believe, who once said that part of the thing with Jerry and drugs is that he just didn't like to be told what was good for him and what wasn't... and fairly enjoyed giving the finger to the rest of the world when it came to things that he wanted to put into his own body."

I heard that Jerry once tried to beat the hell out of John Perry Barlow while he was wasted on junk.

Brent was on the road for 11 years solid. His wife had two daughters and got tired of the constant tours. She split and Brent went from drinking a little booze to using hard drugs. Killed himself with goof balls if I remember right.

Anyone who sees that 89 Summer solstice video can watch Mydland leave Shoreline early. The crew has to chase him down in the parking lot between the second set and the encore...

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2006-11-02 06:23:25

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Nov 1, 2006 11:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

cousinkix1953:
Actually, Jerry didn't "kick the shit out of Barlow." Upon hearing Barlow's plea, Jerry said nothin', got up from the couch, walked down a corridor to his room, hung a sign on his door that read "Do Not Disturb" and shut the door behind him. I am out of town at the moment otherwise I'd get the source of that quote for you.
My Love for Jerry continues to grow...to think about what he carried around inside that Heart of his combined with a superior intellect and serving the Muse.....full of Grace. --- AshesRising

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Nov 2, 2006 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Whatever we say, and however we say, it's not in spite or in hate. The fact that we had a great deal of love for Jerry that continues to this day overrides most any criticism of his lifestyle, onstage or off. For whatever reason, Heroin played a role in the shortened life of Garcia, Brent, Keith and John Kahn.

There's no denying that life around the band was like living in a drug soup, which made it all the more difficult for any kind of meaningful intervention, without having the hypocritical finger pointed. There's also no denying that the quality of the music, at minimum, was altered when the drug of choice changed. It's been well documented in writing, but the best examples of how it changed the music is right here for the listening. Or, if you like, you can go to youtube and see the visual representation of the Grateful Dead by comparing 1977 to 1994 and the pitiful sight of Garcia standing dead still and fumbling to achieve what once came so naturally. (Hornsby's view on this is both neutral, from a relative outsider's standpoint and quite sad, as told in the Goodrich book.)

Obviously, it can't all be blamed on heroin use alone, but the fact of the matter is that Garcia cared very little for the vehicle we call a body. Thirty years of wear and tear from the road and a lifestyle free from healthy maintenance were certainly more than enough to effect the performance of any person, musician or not.

For me, and in genaral terms, the arrival of heroin on the scene marks the decline in the quality of the music that the band was capable of producing. Evrything that lead up to the Spring of 1977 began a long process of erosion starting that fall. At first, not significantly noticable, but by 81 and 82 the consistancy had taken a hit. All you need to do is listen.



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Poster: tree-ap Date: Nov 2, 2006 8:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I can--MOST unfortunately--synpathize & empathize with Jerry & Brent's drug use. Being an active junkie affects just about EVERYTHING in your life. For them, being dope sick would've affected their performances pretty terribly. When you're dope sick, every minute feels like an hour, every hour feels like a day, and every day feels like a week. Getting "well" is ALL you think about. If I was sick & knew I had "medicine" in my dressing room, tour bus, or back in my hotel room, then leaving stage to fix-up IS justified in your mind. We all have our demons/vices though, whether it's smack, crack, crank, coke, twinkies, TV, or GOD. Jerry & Brent ARE sorely missed by us all, so is it really important to speculate--which is what we're all doing here--what drugs ANY of the band were on while performing? Wasted typing as far as I'm concerned. Besides, I THINK this was supposed to be about RHINO's 1st "new" release???
Can I get an AMEN on NO MORE FUCKING COMPILATIONS!!! I DO NOT WANT highlights of shows, or specific tours, or specific years. Take ONE show, or a run at a specific venue & RELEASE ALL THAT IS AVAILABLE for that show or run. I realize that not every show has surviving tapes, that maybe only one set is available, or that there are songs missing from the reels---whatever. If 12/31/76 is released & a song that was performed IS NOT on the CD's, then it needs to be listed in the notes as to WHY it is not included. Also, if there are songs included as filler or "bonus" songs, then these songs need to be THE ONLY surviving material from whatever show they are from, and this ALSO needs to be included in the notes. The notes shown for "The Houseboat Tapes" DP is a perfect example. Anyway, I guess it's great that they are finally getting around to the releases. It has been more than a year since the last DP, and at least 8 months since the last download.
Personally, I want box sets from Winterland runs from '71 - '74--2/22-23-24/74 , or Dec '72 for example. Remember this, it's ALL in how the music makes YOU "feel"...
WWWEEE LLLOOOVVVEEE YYYOOOUUU!!!